Episode 018 Cathy Nyce, Director, Marketing and Communications at Maryland Automobile Insurance Fund

March 12, 2018

Cathy is a marketing guru who led the complete corporate rebrand of a 40-year-old quasi-governmental agency including the name change, logo change and development of integrated advertising campaign, website, lead distribution model, and analytics. All this takes leadership when you are bringing radical change to an old institution.


Podcast Highlights

  • Flexibility is a key leadership trait
  • Leaders build bridges
  • It's the challenging times that really bond a team together
  • Always keep in mind you have a personal brand 

Connect With Cathy




Episode 017 Bill Clark, Founder Clark Leadership Group On Leadership

March 6, 2018

Bill is a serial entrepreneur who has founded, bought, grown and sold multiple businesses. He has experienced both thrilling successes and catastrophic failures in his professional and personal life. Now, in the final chapters of his life, Bill provides insightful and strategic business knowledge based in practical experience, gained over a lifetime. His sole focus is to help others to achieve their dreams.

Bill enjoys the reputation of being a down to earth, resilient and self-aware person who is a life-long learner. His “perpetual learning mode” approach to life has allowed him to realize his own dreams of becoming an accomplished sailor and aviator, as well as an inspired leader.

Podcast Highlights

  • Always Play UP - go for higher margins and higher prices  
  • Self-discovery is an essential activity that great leaders do
  • Let your people fail because that is where learning is done 

Connect With Bill




Episode 016 Dave Elliott CEO MPower Unlimited shares how to reach your potential

March 1, 2018

When it comes to relationship transformation, Dave Elliott is a noted expert, author, international speaker and an accomplished coach who gets results for his clients all over the world. He’s especially gifted at teaching smart, amazing women how to bring out the very best in men – rather than suffering through their worst. Whether he’s sharing his expertise in books or products or on some of today’s most widely-read relationship websites or on TV, radio or stage, you’ll come away with the new awareness, skills and strategies to get the breakthrough results you really want and need.


Podcast Highlights

  • Understanding the six primary human needs
  • Our perceived strengthens can mask weaknesses
  • Our biggest challenges are often our most valuable teachers
  • You can take back your power at any time with NLP

Connect With Dave

A Legendary Love for Life

LinkedIn Profile



Episode 015 Wendy Merrill, Chief Rainmaker at Strategy Horse

February 27, 2018

Wendy has a unique approach that combines candid feedback, strategic thinking, and accountability to prepare younger professionals to seek, accept and run with the torch of leadership when it is passed to them. She delivers value through strategic consulting, customized group workshops, individual coaching and sharing her wisdom from the stage.



  1. Vulnerability is an asset for leaders not a sign of weakness
  2. Self-aware leaders know their value to the organization
  3. Self-advocacy is an essential skill that great leaders possess  
  4. Leaders need to be in the present moment



Episode 013 Joe DeMattos, CEO HFAM

February 15, 2018

An accomplished not-for-profit association CEO with a proven track record of accomplishment in building championship teams, increasing revenue, and managing risk, and building brand and value.

Directly leads advocacy on behalf of a provider industry that supports nearly $6 billion in annual statewide business sales, more than $3 billion in direct employee compensation, and employs over 36,000 people throughout Maryland.



  • Create a compelling 'Why' because why's create musts
  • Great leaders are great listeners
  • Recognize there are no perfect leaders
  • Surround yourself with smart people




Episode 012 Mike Shelah CEO at Mike Shelah Consulting

January 27, 2018

In 2011, Mike began sharing his insights and perspectives with audiences throughout Maryland. In 2015, He founded Mike Shelah Consulting to work directly with companies and sales professionals across the United States. Mike is a frequent podcast guest and can be seen on Fox45 in Baltimore.  A resident of Westminster Maryland since 2005, Mike is a dedicated: husband, father and community advocate.

Podcast Highlights

  1. Effective sales managers have a willingness to listen to their salespeople
  2. It's a great feeling when someone pays me for my mind
  3. There is a direct correlation between emotional intelligence and sales success
  4. Your perspective is shaped by your beliefs
  5. Sales success comes from managing the expectations of your boss, your customers and yourself

Connect with Mike




Episode 011 Doug Miller, CEO, Strategic Sales Search

January 11, 2018

Doug Miller is the CEO at Strategic Sales Search. Strategic Sales Search has helped technology companies build world-class sales and marketing teams. We help companies find a hidden talent pool of sales and marketing pro’s every day. These highly effective pros are hidden because they are blind to job boards and postings because they are too busy making quota.



Never give up. Always keep going

Go early, stay late and hard work. This is how you achieve greatness

Build an effective sales process and continually improve it

Your mindset is a key to success

Connect with Doug



 Podcast Transcript


Hello, everyone, I'm really happy today to have Doug Miller the C.E.O. of Strategic Sales Search. Doug welcome to the program.

Douglas. Thank you.

Host. So Doug in ninety seconds tell us who you are and what you do?

Douglas. So I run a thirty-year-old search firm that specializes in placing sales pre-sales marketing talent and leadership talent with technology companies, and we’ve been in it for a long time and we really help tech companies build world-class sales teams that accelerate revenue and increase stakeholder value.

Host. So one of the things I was looking at Doug was that it turns out there are three hundred thousand plus recruiters in the US. How do you rank up?

Douglas. I'm in the Top seventy-five it's the pinnacle society it's the top tier of that industry.

Host. Like the top one percent of the one percent.

Douglas. The top one percent yes exactly.

Host. So Douglas tell us who's your favorite superhero?

Douglas. If Rocky counts as a superhero he would probably be my the early rocky not the not the …

Host. Right so what do you like, what spoke to you about that character?

Douglas. I’m always a fan of the underdog. Always a fan of people who keep getting up no matter how hard it is.

Host. So Doug what motivates you?

Douglas. I mean I'm driven by you know a lot of things that drive other people but especially driven by making an impact making a difference in the world to make a difference in the world that we can influence.

Host. So we all have mentors and a bunch of them, who is someone that stands out for you?

Douglas. So I was one of those lucky kids who had an awesome family and my dad was always you know my main mentor forever.

Host. So what was the attribute he had that spoke to you?

Douglas. He was a real-life Rocky, he was the you know, the underdog. It wasn't you know from a little town in West Virginia you know it's one of those kinds of stories that. did some big things and I’m proud to be a son and he was always someone I looked up to.
Host. Brilliant, so Doug if you could have lunch with somebody alive today or somebody from history would that be and what would you ask them?

Douglas. This is probably a little crazy but I would like to sit down, I would like to have lunch with Lincoln just to see what that was like day-to-day going through that period.

Host. That adventure and what was the attribute that speaks to you?

Douglas. He was another one just against all odds, kept going I don’t know how many times actually lost different elections


Episode 010 Fred Diamond, Co-founder, Institute for Excellence in Sales shares the 3 questions that lead to success

January 3, 2018

Fred Diamond is the co-founder and executive director at The Institute for Excellence in Sales (IES). TheIES strives to help sales professionals and leaders — no matter where they are in their careers — with world-class education and tools to increase their success. Service professionals get the tools they need to gain skills in the art and science of selling and generating revenues. The IES is the sales executive’s primary authority and resource for training, programs, and services. Sales professionals also benefit from an active community to build their networks to grow their careers and sales.



  • Sell more by helping your customers achieve their business goals
  • Successful salespeople treat sales as a profession and are continually learning
  • Great sales leaders give their salespeople space to do their work and coach them to do better
  • The best way to retain sales talent is to continually help them achieve their goals

Connect With Fred






Episode 009 Ken Rochon, Visionary at The Umbrella Syndicate shares the 3 questions that lead to success

December 18, 2017

Ken Rochon is an accomplished entrepreneur of over 30 years with Absolute Entertainment, published author of eight books, including Becoming the Perfect Networker, Succeeding 1 Connection @ a Time, global fusion DJ, founder of Perfect World Network/Perfect Networker, photographer, world traveler, and recipient of America’s Most Influential Business Connector of 2010. 



  1. Living a purpose driven life gives you the passion to build something great.
  2. Your most important asset is your character.
  3. Keep going never give up.
  4. Success comes from anticipating your customer's need.
  5. 3 things you can do to get people out of slump:
  • Talk to them
  • Inspire them
  • Help them get a go fwd plan and coach them through it 

Connect with Ken



Here is a transcription of this podcast:

UMAR HAMEED: Hello everyone welcome to the no limit selling podcast and today I’m honored to have Ken Rochon of the Umbrella syndicate. Ken, tell us who you are and what you do?

KEN ROCHON: Well, the main thing we do is we help leaders amplify their message and we’re dealing with authors, speakers, and leaders; we help them with events for promoting. We also help them with creating books or something that’s going to create a legacy or a lead generation item.

UMAR HAMEED: That's pretty brilliant because there's like a gazillion people out there that know that they have a book within them but have no capacity to get it out in a way that somebody would want to read it.

KEN ROCHON: And the other part about it is that when you get the book out you forget that no one knows the book exists so there is the other part of marketing letting and people know that not only the book exists but it also solves a problem and that problem will get the sales happening.

UMAR HAMEED: Absolutely, so like if a tree falls in the forest. If somebody publishes a book will someone ever know it exists, and you help them do that.


UMAR HAMEED: So, Ken to give us a better sense of who you are? Who is your favourite superhero? And why?

KEN ROCHON: You know I have been thinking about that since the beginning of this year and I'll tell you it’s probably Superman. And I know that's probably just too predictable, but Superman is just a good guy and he really is trying to solve problems. And I think he has a good heart. All these other guys they have these, I think…and they don't rub the right way with me, so I think Superman.

UMAR HAMEED: Superman it is. So Ken, what motivates you? You are doing a lot of stuff. What keeps you motivated? Keeps you going?

KEN ROCHON: Well, I used to think what motivated me was having a productive day, so I own an entertainment company and low and behold about 2005 my mom came down with Dementia which leaded to Alzheimer's and I started having a lot of questions about what is my purpose. And honestly, if my mom hadn’t had Alzheimer’s, I don’t think that would have been a question that was in the forefront of my mind. So, what is a purpose driven life to me is actually leaving a legacy and helping other people do so.

UMAR HAMEED: That’s brilliant. So, Ken who is your mentor?

KEN ROCHON: I have several. One is a gentleman, that I just had on my show this morning and his name is Berry Shewer and he's very purpose driven. He has an app that is called "Delighted" and if you use delighted to make your purchases you actually give 2% to the philanthropy or cause or movement that you desire without any cost to yourself and his goal is to reach a billion dollars by having the world use his app at no expense on them. and then his "Keep Smiling Movement” I think you can see that with his keep smiling card Its been something that I've not only embrace but have caused the rest of the world to notice. So, Berry Shrewer is a very important man to remember. My dad is the other one from a standpoint that he keeps me really in tune with what is the most important asset that you have which is your character and as I bring up my son in a weird way he becomes a residual of that mentorship.

UMAR HAMEED: Yeah, that's brilliant. So, you just pass on the knowledge?


Umar Hameed: So who would you like to have lunch with Ken? Somebody from history, someone you know, someone you know of. Who would that be and what would you ask them?

KEN ROCHON: Well I suppose if that was a living person, I would say Sir Richard Branson just because he's a rebel and he's defied the odds. He's lived the life he wanted to live, and I think just getting into his hearing and him seeing how pure my heart is, I think I would get his friendship and more importantly his advisement on how to be more powerful with where my thoughts are and my vision of making a difference.

UMAR HAMEED: Yes, this is all about a matter of perspective and sometimes you just can't get the perspective you need unless you have somebody that's walked a different path and they can go "Ken, why aren't you doing this?" "Be bolder"

KEN ROCHON: Well, I know this is an interview where you’re asking the questions, but could I ask a question to you?

UMAR HAMEED: Of course.

KEN ROCHON: Who would you want to meet?

UMAR HAMEED: The only person I'd want to meet is Tesla. Nikola Tesla is one of my heroes, and...... It's seen the world, what it could be is pretty amazing.

KEN ROCHON: Right. That's a great answer

UMAR HAMEED: Not many people know this, but the first X-ray taken, I'm not sure if it’s the first but according to the biography of Tesla he had the Tesla coil with those high voltage snaps that also release x rays and, so he had a film in front of his friend Mark Twain and Mark Twain was the first person to get x-rayed. Isn't that amazing?

KEN ROCHON: That is awesome.

UMAR HAMEED: So tell about your first sales job. What was it and how did you like it?

KEN ROCHON: I think I liked it. It was at Sears Roebuck Company, I was in my teens going to college and It was selling electronics. Since I was a DJ at the time I looked at it as a way as getting discounts and learning more about the electronics field and they had a photography department which used a heck out of for my travel, so I think that first sales job did its job. It taught me how to sell. I was the number one part-time salesperson there and it was really teaching me that people want to be heard and they want to know that the value and the problem they want to solve is not something they are going to regret later so I just acted as if I was them.

UMAR HAMEED: Brilliant, walk in their shoes. So, what’s the best deal you've ever done?

KEN ROCHON: I would say they're coming because they are in the work right now. I'll share them with you and they're not deals yet because they have not happened yet but I'm working on a deal with a gentleman who has a jet company and my hope is that I can build his influence magazine for his members. He has about 300 members for his jet. And If this happens I would have lots of rides on jets which would save me a lot of air travel from other events and I would be able to something that is very purpose-driven, and I'd be able to hang with movers and shakers because these are people that are flying 25 thousand and 40 thousand-dollar seats. I will tell you I'm learning a lot from this deal because this has been two months and today I did my tenth communication with them and the deal is not south and it’s also not happening but it's in the works.

UMAR HAMEED: It’s a process and yes, just keeps on going. It's like one of the things that.....separate people that are highly successful and the ones that are not is that they are built to stay on course and just keep going.

KEN ROCHON: Well that particular question I anticipated based on our earlier conversation that was going to happen and I would say that most of my deals are 10000 or less. I have three potential $100.000 deals happening right now and so none of them are in the bag, but they are the ones I'm most interested in.

UMAR HAMEED: Why? I don't get it but anyway. So, who's the best sales Manager you ever had and what attribute? So it’s either Sales Manager or Leader and what was the attribute they had that support to you?

KEN ROCHON: I actually have not had a great Sales manager that I can recall but I also haven’t worked for many sales managers to be fair, but I have worked for a lot of leaders an through my RTC I had a major that taught about how you sacrifice yourself and about you are the person that shows that you want to do whatever you ask others to do. And I remember one time in a field exercise a grenade ....one of those fake grenades, they got loosed and he actually jumped on a grenade on his belly. Damaged could have happened, fortunately, it did not go off, but he didn't know that.

UMAR HAMEED: He walked his talk.

KEN ROCHON: He walked his talk.

UMAR HAMEED: That's integrity, it's important.


UMAR HAMEED: So, in your career tell me about your come to Jesus moment where you had like to rethink what you are doing or re-evaluate or take a new path.

KEN ROCHON: Two of them. One I reference with my DJ

UMAR HAMEED: There weren't two coming of Christ. We’re waiting for the second you've had two of yours. That's nice.

KEN ROCHON: Well one is to reiterate about what I was saying about my mom passing when I was watching her pass and taking care of her with my dad and I really did ask the question how important is DJ and how important is doing weddings every weekend and there is the point when you say, "I don't know if it is " And so how many lives am I impacting or affecting. So, when I left Deejaying and my mom had passed I wrote my first book. It was called: “Becoming a Perfect Networker...... Succeeding 1 Connection at A Time" and without that book happening, I don't know if I would have loved publishing because I certainly hated that experience.

UMAR HAMEED: Oh It’s horrible. Isn’t it?

KEN ROCHON: It’s a horrible experience:

UMAR HAMEED: Especially when it is to meet the editor finally. You think you've sweated, bled you have not until the editor says, "What’s this shit?"

KEN ROCHON: Yes, the only thing I think is honestly worst is probably delivering a child, but since I'll never know what exactly, I'll just say a book is a nice second. But the other Come to Jesus moment was really last year I was doing so many great things with the Umbrella Syndicate except for one thing in the world and that was making money and I heard you have to do that with a business otherwise It's a hobby. So, my Come to Jesus moment was that I had to create a system to monetize it, so we went back home, and we are now creating something that's quite magical right now and I have three people that are very system oriented and so

UMAR HAMEED: That helps. You're the visionary

KEN ROCHON: Exactly, and so I didn't have the right team members and so that was a come to Jesus moment for me.

UMAR HAMEED: Nice, have you ever had a deal that you saved from the jaws of death?

KEN ROCHON: .....From the light of the jaws of death that you're going to lose it many


KEN ROCHON: I'll start off with the ones that build my deejay service which was "Hey Umar, so you are having a deejay event in four weeks. I’d love to be your Deejay this is my price and I need to hear back from you the next day. So, I would call you the following day and what are you thinking knowing you are not going with me and then I would say I'll do your event for free so that's called saving. But more recently it’s really about negotiating what people don't want to spend in order to get what you want so you are in the doors, so you can do future business with them. So, I call that I take jobs away from other people that they may not know that it's just a transaction, I want to develop a relationship, so I did a short of half million dollars last year in barter and for instance, you’re a recipient of that whenever I go to your events, you're not paying me I'm a sponsor. That sponsorship has a value. It’s an In-kind sponsorship and it has a true value because you acknowledge me in front of people I get to meet people at your events and I get to learn and here I am today I would say this is a very big reward for two events that I’ve done with you. We get a chance to talk and say, “Why don't you be on my show which is happening next Monday and I'm going to be on your show" And this is all about just thinking about how we give value to people.

UMAR HAMEED: Absolutely....So looking at sales in general, what do you think the biggest challenge in sale is, in this day and age of Social Media and everyone moving at the speed of light and Globalization. What is the biggest challenge, sales people face in sales?

KEN ROCHON: Can I use your answer? You have got to be able to address the need of the customer so quickly that they are so satisfied that they don't want to look at anyone else at all. And if you don't do that you will probably lose the job because someone else going to do that. And that’s probably the biggest focus you have to have now in sales.

UMAR HAMEED: So, what I'm hearing you say is that "You have to anticipate the needs of customers and deliver beyond and that way you retain customers and grow and if you're not doing that. Someone's going to eat your lunch.

KEN ROCHON: That is true. and just restating and possible more simply is the first person to reach that customer and say what’s important to you and I promise that what’s important to you, I can take care of that important thing and here's my proof that I can take care of that important thing and the price I'm going to give you is considerably fair. I think they are going to say, "You know what, I got other things to do this is the right person"

UMAR HAMEED: Brilliant. So, what’s the best advice you've ever gotten?

KEN ROCHON: This is so corny, but be honest and treat a customer like you want to be treated. So, when I started my deejay service, I asked three questions..... At eighteen, this is kind of looking back and say, 'Wow that was actually pretty smart" because I use those three questions every time I open up a new business and it was 1. What I want to own it? 2. What I want to work for it? 3. What I want to hire? And If I couldn't answer yes to those emphatically, there's something wrong with the puzzle. Because you either have a retention problem, or you have a boredom problem, or you have a client problem, because that sale is full of problems.

UMAR HAMEED: So just kind of digging deeper into that. Most people would assume whatever they are selling whatever they are doing, that they are doing in the right fashion and the right way for the right people. But the reality is unless you ask that question you don't know the answers to that. If you assume the answers are going to be Yes, I'm perfect. When you ask the question "Would I hire myself, and you go, yes but...." That's the thing you need to fix.

KEN ROCHON: Yes. And you know the answers to that was actually No in some of these categories which I had to fix.

UMAR HAMEED: So, give me an example of one those.

KEN ROCHON: Ok. So, NO was "Why would I hire you? You're 19" That's when I started my company. I was 18 So I said I had have three USP’s that are so phenomenal that 19 is not a factor anymore that anyone looked at my age. I even had a baby face back then, so I probably looked like I was 12 when I was 19. So, I came up with I’ll be the only one with a full-time company, I'd be the only one that had a full-time office and I would do Demos, so people could know what they are getting. Most Deejays, and it’s even true of today. You called them, and you meet them for coffee and when you meet them for coffee, your coffee and their personality sells the job, not knowing what the equipment is, not knowing their music knowledge not knowing their mixing ability or anything. So, when I did this stuff in front of them, they said "Yes, that’s the experience we want to have"

UMAR HAMEED: Brilliant. So going back to that, I was talking to this gentleman, his name is Elliot at the Strathmore, and so they had to raise a ton of dollar to make that happen.


UMAR HAMEED: I think it was a hundred million dollars or something and so one of the things they used was that they got the artist rendering of what it would look like to be looking at the stage. They purchased two seats that were actually going to go into the facility when it was done. And "do you remember during the olden days when they had these things called "Records" and they had this plastic dome above the record station that only you could hear the music underneath the dome. People around you couldn't"

KEN ROCHON: Yep that's right

UMAR HAMEED: So, they got these two seats looking at the rendering of what the theatre is going to look like, and they had classical music raining down upon them and they say they got fatter cheques because people could just imagine. It was like being there, and what you did for your clients was not "This is what I'll do, but let me show you what I' can do"

KEN ROCHON: The experience.

UMAR HAMEED: The experience sells.

KEN ROCHON: And then as time went by. The experience became the way of creating a social proof because they said the experience was valid.


KEN ROCHON: So, I was able to say we don't just give you the experience we prove the experience happens again.

UMAR HAMEED: So, one of the things you mentioned Ken was that now you have the right partners. You don't have any employees per se' but you have partners.

KEN ROCHON: We have some employees, but we have more partners than employees probably.

UMAR HAMEED: So, tell me about, how do you know that you are picking right employees or the right partner. What do you look for, to know that you've got the right person because everyone looks pretty on paper?

KEN ROCHON: Yes, so that comes to values and it come to conversations where you understand that there is going to be a partnership and I think the secret of a partnership if you are going to have that conversation with someone and say "Listen, I'm in this for the long haul and I'm going to compete with you to give you more unconditionally that what you can give me and what I mean by that is I'm not going to keep track of points, I'm really going to be there for you " And you got to give a test period about three months. You don’t just sign the papers and say "Hey, Good Luck and everything. And you also really need to look at what the shortcomings are of that partner so that they come out now and not later and you’d say this is how we would fix these shortcomings. So, one of my shortcomings is, I'm not a detailed guy. I just don’t do well with it. And ....I am not punctual all the time. Those are things. So, you just let that stuff out and then if that means a lot to the partner you have to adjust yourself, but you have to let people know what your weaknesses are.

UMAR HAMEED: Yeah. But I think it comes back to ...Sometimes...when people get married.... They know they can change the other person, And I was like "No, you can’t"

KEN ROCHON: No, you can’t

UMAR HAMEED: But if you know what the reality is, and you can live with it

KEN ROCHON: Yeah. I'll give you an example of something that interesting is, the way I ran my company back in the day, is if you are creating sales. I honestly didn't know how, and I didn't care how you created them as long as the sales stuck. Meaning, the clients never came back and said: "they sold me this and I did not get this" So if someone did, let's say $10,000 in sales that week and they only worked two hours, but another person did forty hours and did $4,000. I really like the person that did the two hours work.

UMAR HAMEED: Yes. Makes sense

KEN ROCHON: And so, that's result based leadership. And so, I say that because that's how when I'm running late I may actually create a result that could only happen because I made that extra phone call, and I knew I was dicing a little bit, but when you're juggling and your productive sometimes timing is not thought of as much as the result.

UMAR HAMEED: Right.... Makes sense....So...Ken, sometimes you come across people that are your employees or friends or families that get into a slump. How do you help people get out of a slump?

KEN ROCHON: I think there are probably three ways to do it. One is to have a conversation about what's going on in their life right now. The other one is having them come with you and give them that inspiration and get them more on that mindset because as you know it’s typically when you are in that slump your mindset is actually feeding that.

UMAR HAMEED: Right. It deepens it.

KEN ROCHON: So, there's something going on so they're probably not hanging with the right people and having the right experiences. So, getting in their world and getting them out of their world by having them hanging with you or putting them with someone that’s more upbeat, surrounding them with the right type of communication. And then, Three, I think role-playing Just say "Hey, let me hear what you're doing because we change as we think we are evolving and sometimes that changes not, actually evolving. It’s like we're cutting things out. So, if you have this thing that the seventh thing you have is really your closing piece and you have ten things you say and the seventh was pulled out because you're in a slump. That’s notice, and you say, "What happened to Number 7?" And so, I think those things are going to help a lot.

UMAR HAMEED: So, What I hear you saying is, if you find someone in a slump. The first thing you do is take them out of their environment..... You get them some positive motivation or guidance and then your role plays to really understand what’s going on so you can give them proper coaching to kind of move forward and just re-focusing their attention on better results, is the best way to get that change?

KEN ROCHON: Yes and just to expand that the book I did when you're in is it keep smiling shift happens is, the shift is what has to happen. Because when you are in a slump you’re going to continue to be in a slump until you shift. And I think it’s really amazing that is the only thing that is stopping you is you just continue in this mindset that's driving you down instead of changing it.

UMAR HAMEED: Yep. And it’s so easy to do for other people. Like why don't to just change that? But when you are in it yourself, it is tough to see. That's why God invented spouses.
So how important is having the right mindset to success?

KEN ROCHON: I'm going to say it’s worthless, it's meaningless.....

UMAR HAMEED: It’s horrible.

KEN ROCHON: Laughing. You know again that Keep Smiling book it is actually a book I wrote for myself. Sometimes we write for ourselves in order to help ourselves and then we give it to others. But when I was going through that period of time that I wasn't monetizing it the right way I can tell you we were losing thousands of dollars every month personally and business-wise. I really had to either believe in what I was doing or just say this is not for me and move on to something else. So, i got up every day believing this was the right path and that cause me to meet the right people which are my partners now.

UMAR HAMEED: Brilliant... It kind of goes back to the outage. It’s like you know that you teach what you need to learn. And I help people break through their barriers, so they become “awesomer” and I look at myself saying "oh my God" where am I stuck?

KEN ROCHON: You know there is another thing about the slump I wanted to say the Henry Ford code, where they think you can or you can’t get it wrong. You’re right, because when you're in a slump they’re actually saying this is continuing and, so they prove it right. They go "see I told you".

UMAR HAMEED: Yep.... so, in my world, our beliefs dictate who we are and our beliefs of self-fulling prophecies and if you believe that the world is out to get you, it is.


UMAR HAMEED: So, what’s something you know now Ken that you wish you knew 10 years ago?

KEN ROCHON: I wish I knew that's when I was partnering with someone what their ultimate belief system is and what their partnership works or not. Because it’s funny but people that don’t believe in partnerships again will prove they don't work and 80% or more people I don't think to believe partnerships because they have had bad partnerships. And it takes only one thing in a lot of things to ruin something. And if you have a mindset where that was wrong Umar it's not working for me let’s just call it a bad partnership. That’s the type of partnership that will never work. Because that’s not a working on a partnership. Whereas someone that actually is in that 1% or maybe up to 20% says hey Umar we have to have a conversation, we committed ourselves to we're going to be great partners and I’m committed to that and i know you are just one thing that you are doing is actually holding us back. Can we work on that? And that’s a different conversation. So, one. I think is of love and the other one is of scared city or fear.

UMAR HAMEED: Fear. The opposite of love is not hate its fear.

KEN ROCHON: Right. That’s why I didn’t chose hate I agree with you. And I think that’s the reason partnerships don’t work, is so many of them operate in fear of I’m doing more than that person. I'm afraid that I’m going to exhaust..... and all these things are working against you instead of what you're creating together.

UMAR HAMEED: So, Ken it'd be fear to say that you probably meet more people than the average bear, right?

KEN ROCHON: Maybe even squirrel.

UMAR HAMEED: Yep. So, you also meet a lot of people that aren't living up to their potential, that have the resources, have the passion have the drive but just aren't getting the results that they want, what do you think, what’s that piece of advice you could give those people? Why do you think that people get stuck? What is the disconnect?

KEN ROCHON: I think that the biggest disconnect is their reality. Which is I have to do this and if I get out of this zone I’m not going to have enough or I’m going to fail so it goes back to fear which is what we talked about earlier. What I’m doing it takes courage being an entrepreneur it takes courage. What you are doing you know developing something new in Baltimore, it takes courage I don't know any other word how to put it. So those that are not living their potential are not being courageous and they are living in fear. It’s not to say that I’m not in fear myself, it’s that I have to overcome it.

UMAR HAMEED: And that's where the definition of courage is it’s not a lack of fear it’s like moving in spite of fear. I came across this brilliant advice the other day it was a Tv show and this is geeky kid and he said look when I come across something really scary like theirs a really pretty girl'' and he's about seven or eight "and what I really want to do is get on my bike and go the opposite direction as fast as I can I trick myself and go in the direction of the girl and that way I overcome it. So that's what we need to do is overcoming fear.

KEN ROCHON: Yea and I think a lot of it comes down to, is someone wanting to live their full potential because they may not want to. I’m not living my full potential.

UMAR HAMEED: So, I really think that a lot of people don’t know the heart of, who we are, we need to know what our purpose is. Why are we here, what’s the difference we want to make and once you figure that out, then you can pick a goal worthy of you along that path? some of the times people pick goals I want to be a millionaire or I want a business like this or I want to do this but if they knew what their purpose was they could pick a goal that's on purpose and that way has more power because that’s what you were put on this planet to do .

KEN ROCHON: And I love your last conference because I went deep in that and I was so on point because if you don’t attach the purpose to its just this flagrant little goal that was just kind of wishy washy and it just dissipates.

UMAR HAMEED: Because its way too many people that are 40s and 50s that have this life that they built that looking from the outside is a successful life and they are wondering how did I get here because I never wanted to be a lawyer a doctor a surgeon or whatever and the reason they know that is because they are making a tone of doe, but they are not happy. And so, if you can find purpose you build something that inspires you ....

KEN ROCHON: You actually hit something with me about a movie that I saw I don't know the name of it we can always put that in the link later but the guy gets fired and he's been at this job for a very long time getting paid enormous amount of money but they are doing cut backs and the guy who is firing him says 'I want to ask you a question is this what you want to do with your life?" And he says, "no this is not what I want to do." So, he says "what do you want to do?" I think it was a George Cluny movie. And the guy says I want to do this with my life and the he says and why didn’t you? And he says because I took this job because its stable and he says you do realize after you leave, and you have time not today but later you will thank me for what i did because it’s not too late to do what you want to do with your life.

UMAR HAMEED: Yep. It’s never too late.


UMAR HAMEED: So, just before we part company Ken, what’s one book you'd recommend for folks to read?

KEN ROCHON: I'm not going to say the predictable. I have over two thousand books in my library and I will say a somewhat predictable one, any by Malcolm Gladwell, but Tipping Point first. And I say that from a stand point that, so many people get a great start in life on what they want their dream to be and they don’t wait for the results to kick in and the tipping point is that it takes nine months to years to see the result from what you did. That you're going to exhaust yourself and I have not thought of anything to include in a book that doesn’t come to foliation or some sense of wow all that effort is finally making sense now.

UMAR HAMEED: And the thing is that nine months things is maybe a little short because if you take a look at any one hit any band that gets this amazing breakthrough. So, you are an overnight sensation. Yea it took seven years or dive bars and then we finally made it. But I’ll leave everyone with this one quote Winston Churchill "When you get to hell keep going.'' So, Ken thanks so much for coming here. How can people get a hold of you?

KEN ROCHON: they can go to Facebook which is where we live more than anything else and that’s the Facebook page the umbrella syndicate where they can email me at ken@theumbrellasyndicate.com.

UMAR HAMEED: Thanks so much for chatting with me today I really enjoyed it.

KEN ROCHON: Thank you very much it was a pleasure.




EPISODE 008: Noah Berk, President of OBO Agency shares how to create a better customer experience

December 10, 2017

Noah Berk is the co-founder and head of strategy at OBO Agency. With more than 15 years of B2B sales and marketing experience ranging from startups to large enterprises, he drives the company's strategy in transforming the way clients conduct generate business.



Highlights from Podcast

  1. Instead of chasing money, focus on helping customers and the money will follow
  2. The more you learn, the better customer experience you create
  3. A sales person's job is to help the customers think at a higher level
  4. You create momentum for your org when you doing something you're great at
  5. YOU are what you read. YOU are who you meet, YOU are what your experiences.


Connect with Noah Berk:



Here is a transcription of this podcast:

Umar Hameed: Are you ready to become awesomer? Hi everyone this is Umar Hameed and welcome to another episode of the No Limit Selling Podcast, where we talk to industry leaders about tips, tricks and strategies to become more awesome in what you do, and today I'm privileged to have Noah Berk he is the president of OBO agency. Noah welcome to the program.

Noah Berk: Thanks for having me here today.

Umar Hameed: So Noah in ninety seconds tell us who you are and what you do?

Noah Berk: Cool, so I am one of the co-founders OBO. agency and we are a B2B company's marketing firm So essentially what we do is we help position our clients as leaders in the market place through a combination of helping them set up and implement their markets technology through content marketing and lead generation tactics, so what I do over here I consider the fun stuff of course I lead sales for the company and I bring on clients I think would be a really good fit for the services we provide but more importantly I get to do strategy. So my job is to learn and I'm supposed to learn everything there is to know about marketing everything there is to know about B2B sales so I can educate my own customers on what to do, what process they should implement.

Umar Hameed: So you walk your talk.

Noah Berk: I walk my talk.

Umar Hameed: That is brilliant, so who's your favorite superhero and why?

Noah Berk: Great question, I think it's Superman you know partly because I mean you know you really can't die even though eventually the comics he does die but he is a bad ass he has all the powers but he's still kind of human you know in terms of his vulnerabilities so he's not the end all be all but he seems to be able to take on any other superhero and I like someone who can always win but still show a sense of humility and be humble at the same time.

Umar Hameed: So Superman you know he's got this sensitivity to kryptonite. So for you as a leader of this organization, what's your kryptonite like what's the one thing you wish you could do better that would make you a Better leader?

Noah Berk: Oh my God not talk so much. Sometimes yeah sometimes I talk you know it's I’ll say it throughout this but it's really listening and being aware and I think as an individuals we tend to talk more than we tend to listen.

Umar Hameed: So I've been listening to this book is called negotiate as if your life depends on it highly recommended by the way and one of things they talk about being hostage rescuers it's not so much about the talking it's about deep listening and they've got other agents listening to the recordings of what's happening alive now and sometimes they just pick up this little fling that can mean the difference between hostages getting killed or not, so being a great leader listening is a critical mostly overlooked element. So Noah what motivates you?

Noah Berk: You know if you asked me this question ten years ago I'd say money. That's not my motivation anymore.

Umar Hameed: It's more money.

Noah Berk: Yes it's more money (laugh) but I should tend to think that.. that can lead you astray. I think what motivates me now is there really helping others. It may seem cliche to say I want to go out there and help my clients become the best of what they do but that's what motivates me and by doing that it makes us the best of what we do and I want to be the best I want to be elite I want to be the place of people come in call and say hey listen I need help myself marketing can you guys help us.

Umar Hameed: So it sounds like what I hear you saying is when you're motivated by money, then it's about ego and doing the best you can and the way you measure is money but when you're motivated by helping your customer succeed that actually takes the ego away and it's more about how to get the best results which is a slight difference but a huge difference. Right?

Noah Berk: And money will follow and so the other problem if you chase money you tend to make decisions not necessarily either in your own best interests or your company's best interests or your future. And you know.looking back in my own career, there's plenty of things I could have done a lot better whereas if I wasn't a silly chasing money first in the business second I probably would have been in a much different place than I am right now

Umar Hameed: Brilliant. So who's one of your mentors that really helped to progress?

Noah Berk: I have a bunch of mentors but one individual I want to talk about Stuart Gold, unfortunately he passed away.

Umar Hameed: I have met him, he was freaking awesome

Noah Berk: Yeah. He's a he is a wealth of information and he tells it to you straight he kept me on the street narrow in fact I started this business with my co-founder and he was one of the first of all I want to go talk to about it and you know the advice he says hey if this is your calling as if this is your direction if you think you're better suited to help other companies succeed, you've got to go do it you know in he gave me the motivation but he also made sure that I had the right intention. Before making that next step.

Umar Hameed: Sounds brilliant and it sounds like it stuck because you know money versus helping and money will follow. So here is a question that some people have a tough time answering. Who would be somebody that you know or someone from history that you'd love to have lunch with and what question would you ask them?

Noah Berk: So I have always been motivated by certain books and one book in particular is Think and Grow Rich and a guy named Napaleon Hill and I would love to sit down in a Napolean Hill more important I love to sit down appoint him and ask him out of everyone who he knows who would he want to interview? and what questions would he want to ask them? because it sent me on my own journey to discover this particular individual and learn new insights so and I think just sitting down to Napolean Hill just be like a wealth of information I mean this guy

Umar Hameed: I would think so and I guess if I would sit down with him the question I'd ask him is, what's the question you still have.

Noah Berk: Yes Yes Exactly exactly.

Umar Hameed: So what was your first sales job?

Noah Berk: So I've pretty much concerned my entire life. If you consider elementary school when I started selling candy you consider that a call that freelance sales job.

Umar Hameed: Yes

Noah Berk: My first real sales job was when I was seventeen I was working for a sales recruiting company and my job was interrupt the times to find sales leads so my very first job was literally going through newspapers a fine job postings and job listings taking on a ruler measuring the size of those ads and equating them to the value we knew the newspaper of selling them for so our sales people.

Umar Hameed: Give me a high five for that.

Noah Berk: Yes. So our sales people then have to go through and actually call on the stuff so I actually help them with everything from their C.R.M. system at the time they're using something called goldmine. I don't know how people remember,goldmine and my very first time a member my job volved was working there they said OK Hey can you do a little research and figure out who we need to call each one of those companies so I actually start picking up the phone call and say Hey who's the sales manager in charge of hiring and one day get someone on the phone and that becomes my very first sales call where the guy says well I'm not interested in talking to someone else I'm only interested in talking to you so what do you guys have to offer.

Umar Hameed: Brilliant. So who was your best sales manager and what was the attribute they had that really spoke to you?

Noah Berk: So he wasn't my direct sales manager, he was one of the founders of a company called Reach Local and some of you may be familiar with them in Iowa she joined them back in 2008 when I called the Wild West of sales. 2008, 2009 for right time frame and and he was one of the founders and he was in charge of all the sales operations and it was his pure energy and his commitment and his willingness to do whatever it takes to get done and I was inspired by him each and every day I mean he showed me that learning equates to better customer experience which equates to more sales and I follow that advice ever since and he's to this day one of the best sales people I've ever come across some of the best managers I've ever personally HAVE.

Umar Hameed: Thanks for sharing that. So have you ever had a come to Jesus moment we had to have like rethink what you were doing and really get on a different track.

Noah Berk: Yes I had a entrepreneur and had a green technology company that was focused on producing indoor hydroponic plants and these plants are not growing with any soil and I left my high pain, you know internet marketing career to go do it.

Umar Hameed: By the way as you were answering that question you pointed to this giant plant is that hydroponic as.

Noah Berk: It is called Hydra culture plants it's actually Hawaiian plant there's no traditional soil on there it's all grown and expanded clay has a while and it cater gaging you can't really kill them as long as you just water them properly and not hard to figure out how to water them because anyone who goes

Umar Hameed: We’ll take a picture of them put it in the podcast.

Noah Berk: Yes, yes, I'd love that the team my team here gives me a hard time about how much I love my indoor plants its great as a hobby but long story short what I didn't follow in people are interested read the forceps or an opinion by Steve Blank but I started to build this business without really understanding what they were what market was for or who was going to purchase and I was very idealistic into a lot of things I teach my clients to do now. So I learned a tremendous amount but the coming of Jesus moment happened when I said, is this what I’m going to be doing for the rest of my life in an industry and a particular product on the business of that people care or don’t care about, or am I going to try something new? And I realized that moment in time that my passion was no longer there. It turns out it’s much more fun as a hobby than as a business, so I said this is a hub enough for business and I ended up selling that company.

Umar Hameed: So basically if we asked ourselves on a regular basis maybe calendar every six months, are you doing something that makes a difference to you? And I think sometimes people go three years into an endeavor window should have gotten out years ago, have the asked about question it would be, no, not happy.

Noah Berk: And I think for a lot of business, the business owners easy to be a business owner when your company is making revenue and profits, very easy, it’s fun. It’s the times when you’re not making the revenue or your losing money month over month, and the profits aren’t there that you question, do you have the capacity and endurance to continue to get to the other end? And then once you get to the other end and are you still going to be happy? And that business was profitable was making money, but I wasn’t happy, I wasn’t happy in what I was doing. And what I set out to do was not what it ended up becoming, and I think it’s always important to take a look at that you know, understand that one day you will make profits, you will make revenue. Is that alone going to make you happy based upon what you’re doing? And if those are questions you got to ask yourself.

Umar Hameed: So tell me about a deal that you saved from the jaws of death?

Noah Berk: Okay there’s a ton of those. One in particular is when I was selling BI software and we were competing against several other companies for this particular software; and this was six-figure deals I was selling at the time, and this particular deal in particular our competitors had come in and they were beginning an offer cutting prices slashing prices, I went to my boss and I said listen, I’ve got to hop on a flight to Minnesota, it’s the middle of winter and I need to go see this client. He says okay go do it. You know there he was encouraging you to go out there and what I quickly understood no one had gone out to meet with this particular cleint. Everyone was pitching him six figure deals but there wasn't a single person on site whether their engineer the sales person. So I actually had gone out there with one of my engineers brought one of my engineers with me.

Umar Hameed: Smart.

Noah Berk: And we did about a day's worth of work onsite totally free,helping them out throughout that process and when I went back to the office it wasn't about numbers about whether they trying to accomplish and very casual was able to say OK session me twice as much as I originally quoted you you bought and partly is because we were to solve this problem it turned out it wasn't about money, it was about having a relationship with a company and feeling confident that when they install our software into their application it will be there.

Umar Hameed: So it goes back to that theme that you started with when you started focusing and it sounds like in an early time focusing on helping the customer actually going out there doing that day of work for free is when you open up opportunities and you really build that relationship.

Noah Berk: Absolutely and I think there's a fine line between giving away free advice and consultation and then showing a customer what you're capable of doing. And you know there's a balance between the two in a certain situations because the outcome you're looking for so great it makes sense and but in other situations you also got to be mindful you know there's a point where you know are you doing free work for the sake of doing free work or is this because you're investing into this relationship for the long term benefits.

Umar Hameed: Brilliant. So looking at the sales profession right now because the climate has changed is always changing I guess always has been but particularly nowadays what do you think is the biggest challenge for salespeople in selling in this day and age?

Noah Berk: Too much data. You know the irony is you're flooded with so much data you're not really quite sure what data is most important to you, so you know what counsel I call what should I bring up in a conversation how should I communicate with this particular prospect and I think the challenge isn't necessarily although it's too much, so much data out there it's how do you use it for your own benefit and I think as a sales person you use this data to figure out how to connect to your audience right and you use this data to figure out how to connect and take a prospect and turn them into a customer and kind of the second part to this is with all this data is you know sales and that is a profession and keep in mind your customer already knows eighty percent about what you have to sell part of are getting on the phone and talking to them right so your job is to help them understand why your product is the one, they should choose and thus you've got to become a consultant so sales people who are focused on transactions, who are not educating themselves who are not reading, who are not saying current on their industry are going to be your bottom twenty percent you know that twenty percent I'm sorry the bottom twenty percent versus. The top twenty percent US can produce eighty percent your company revenue.

Umar Hameed: Makes perfect sense and so back to that being that consultant being that helper just spits you apart from everybody else because you help the client understand what their real needs are as opposed to what they think they are.

Noah Berk: That's correct.

Umar Hameed: So you've got sales people that work with you.

Noah Berk: Oh yes.

Umar Hameed: So how do you manage expectations for the sales people you lead versus your board of directors because you have two sets of expectations, so how do you manage both?

Noah Berk: So that's a really great question so first is to have those goals that we're going to hit and making sure that we're consistently hitting them and I'm really proud to say as a company we have. We've been hitting our goals every month.

Umar Hmeed: Nice.

Noah Berk: You know we've been as a company we got started last January, so only two years and a really really far ahead we've got an excellent client roster,we've got excellent clients coming on board,but I think it comes down to big ensure that you have a plan for both a company as a whole as well as an individual sales basis so you know just like we teach our clients we do ourselves you know who are my top hundred and fifty clients, who I want to bring on board based on my ideal customers and then what's my strategy to go target them and in Mycenae aside time throughout the week to actually devote myself to doing business development or if I'm a sales person my devoting the right amount of time to business development and even given time but without a plan and just kind of willy Delina and just going at it you're not going to be successful and then also being flexible in terms of your approach and realizing that you've got to revisit every quarter are we hitting Are we not what are some lean locks and what do we need to do to overcome it.

Umar Hameed: Brilliant. So how do you motivate your sales team?

Noah Berk: That's a great question, depends upon who they are?

Umar Hameed: right

Noah Berk: Yes, it's an individual basis. So motivating sales team and I think you can probably comment on this too as understanding you know whether it's the Meiers break desk or anything just understand who the person is? Who their personality is and what their motivation is? You may be surprised how many sales people are actually not motivated by money, they're simply motivated by winning. Money comes. You'd be surprised *hostle* what those sales person's motivations are and then be able to trigger on it but I think to keep yourselves people motivated is you have to make sure that as a company you delivering on what they're selling. There's no quicker way to demoralize your sales team and have that salesperson sell an amazing deal and see your product not live up to the expectations or your solution not live up to the expectations.

Umar Hameed: So trust with an organization is critical I was working with a client where the sales team was caving in on price when we unpacked what was going on is they didn't believe that they are supporting him could live up to the expectations so they were kind of taking the foot off the gas and once we fixed that issue then they actually double the sales.

Noah Berk: Yeah.

Umar Hameed: so we didn't teach them a thing about selling but took the I don't want to rip anybody off kind of thing that was going on at the unconscious level.

Noah Berk: I agree and that's something in a I think as a company you can support your salespeople by sharing with them what new products, what features, what capabilities, your success stories in making sure that the teams are aligned, that the team supporting the product and solution are living up to expectations sales also making sure sales know overselling what your product can do.

Umar Hameed: Brilliant, So what's the best advice you've ever gotten?

Noah Berk: Wow. Best advice that I have ever gotten? Was probably my father telling me that Paul the stock market in 2001 right before the bubble exploded last I want permits for money. Now just kidding about that one (laugh). I think the best advice I've ever gotten. It was you know do what you're great at doing and find that thing continue doing it because it's much easier to maintain momentum when you're doing something new you're really great, it maybe you love it maybe you don't love it but you're really great at doing drilling when you're great at doing something he literally love it you know. So I don't want to say do something you love doing because I could say that about plans but I'm not really great

Umar Hameed: Now we're looking at the point you were not.

Noah Berk: Yeah. I'm not really great running you know that's a company person but you know so I think I can grow plants I can grow in your hydroponic plan any question you have about them. But I think it's funny to me that you're really good at doing and making that into.

Umar Hameed: You're going to hit hard times if you doing something you love it gives you the capacity just there's a quote from Winston Churchill a quote a lot "When you get to hell keep going." If you're doing something you love you can do that more easily than something that is George.

Noah Berk: Agreed.

Umar Hameed: So how do you know you're making the right hire when you're hiring a salesperson because that's a tricky thing to do, how do you know you making the right decision.

Noah Berk: Figure out what their incentives are their motivations.

Umar Hameed: Like you're into so in that interview you figure out what drives them.

Noah Berk: You figure out what drives them so I was I had the fortune opportunity to interview thousands of salespeople throughout my life. I was a sales recruiter for about seven years right and I said travel around the country interviewing salespeople for sales positions and very quickly you can start assessing whether or not a salesperson is going to be a good fit for something simply by figure out their internal motivations and drivers. One way of actually doing that is understanding you know they actually treating sales as a craft or how are they perfect in their own craft. One way to do is simply know hey we want to look at I don't care Jeff or get him or HOLMES You name it just give me something that you're doing to improve your own craft. The second thing is what......18:48........ You know why are they going to come in here where they motivate to do what are they motivate be best at. And I think from that particular standpoint you can..18:57...better assessing the individual in the sales person to see are they really going to be a good fit for this are the educating themselves or do the before coming in the interview they know what your product was because if they research you like a little research your prospects.

Umar Hameed: Make sense in it and it's also another theme that keeps on coming up in this conversation "learning is a key element of success."

Noah Berk: The number one I tell my team all the time we're paid to learn.

Umar Hameed: So when you have a salesperson that is talented but we all hit slumps. How do you coach somebody out of a slumps, so they do it sooner than later?

Noah Berk: That's that's a really great question to..

Umar Hameed: Without using a taser.

Noah Berk: Yeah without using a taser or without giving them five hundred dollars or bribing them or incentives or anything else. It depends upon what's causing that slump. I think goes back to one of your earlier questions and one of the answers I gave you is because you know or have faith in your product. You know there are some internal things happening right now in the organisation. Have they checked out for one reason or another?

Umar Hameed: Or could be external event to get to be a service when it…

Noah Berk: Yeah I think there's a lot telltale signs of a salesperson checking own person because I've actually been in that position myself where I'm not motivated anymore and you can start seeing that by simply looking at their activity and I think the other thing is oftentimes sales is forgotten that you're on the front line actually learning what customers want?

Umar Hameed: Right.

Noah Berk: And you know a sales person one other way of getting them involved is by saying well what questions do people have and have your marketing star answering those questions and start actually supporting sales, so getting your salespeople more involved in the business, as a whole help them feel like they're part of the company not just a cock in the wheel, is one way of kind of turning that around.

Umar Hameed: And that's a two way street because I guess it really helps the marketing folks when they know what the sales people are hearing you know the building that team so one team, so here's a question. Do you think sales is a subset of marketing or the other way around?

Noah Berk: That is a really great question because they issue. I think sales of marking are becoming more one in the same or so to see more V.P. as the sales and marketing your service you know more chief revenue officers to market he may be directly reporting them, I see it as a standpoint marking this job is to thing like a battle is to bombard the beach had before you troops arrive.

Umar Hameed:  coporate bombing.

Noah Berk: Corporate bombing Yeah you want to make sure by the time your sales person because before a call that prospect they know what you do, they know what you're about they're familiar with your brand and they feel confident to be able to purchase from you because I makes your job a lot easier. So I really think it's a more of an even playing field whereas the sales work in less a more top of the funnel getting those leads coming in

Umar Hameed: Marketing top of the funnel.

Noah Berk: Marketing, I'm sorry marking top of the funnel its responsibilities sales pull them all the way through the cycle but responsibility of marketing is to help them move that prospect through the funnel. What material what collateral ? What visibility what awareness? what events do we need to go to and to rather think as you know two separate entities working against each other let's think of the most one in the same just different roles.

Umar Hameed: Brilliant so what something that you wishing you now wish that you know now that you wish you knew ten or ten years ago?

Noah Berk: So I think it's patience. Wow patience is such a virtue. There are certain situations of a just simply the patient to hold out, wait it, learn more my career would have been a much different trajectory then you know it is not your I love it oh Russell[23:33] because I've been humbled throughout my career my motivations I think are more aligned and you know I feel better about where I am both as a person and in my career but I think patience is something that people tend to forget excess the highly motivated vicious people, where you're driven and that drive is beyond important a lever that go away. But patients whether it's a business deal patients whether it's a company or patients whether as an entrepreneurial activity.

Umar Hameed: as a leader.

Noah Berk: Ptience as a leader. Patience. You are what you read, you are who you meet and you are your experiences and that makes up who you are as a person. So one area you can accelerate is by reading and listening you want to get further ahead.

Umar Hameed: Brilliant. So what's a book that you're reading right now that you'd like to recommend?

Noah Berk: So there's a couple books I'm reading right now one is the twenty two mutable laws of marketing. And you know it's a classic I think it's what seventy's eighty's and you know right now I don't know so I know I'd recommend it I tend to finish books all the way through right only because I I think some of the principals and they're probably no longer applying especially some of the examples I gave but if I do recommend some business books like some would be just calls from good to great you know get that hatchet you know get that big hairy audacious goal that you're going for and understanding that and there is also another really interesting book that you know maybe I should take a step back rather necessarily just interesting books but there are three books that journey recommend one is How to Win Friends and Influence People by Napoleon Hill another one is. I'm sorry not Napolean Hill and Napolean Hill also thinking grow rich and then the other one also is really want to really long one out there you can read either Atlas Shrugged. Or found had Yeah it will explain why you work but that's for someone who's like really committed. To get further and I meant to say earlier How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie right there was a really interesting book I wish I could just pull off Tom ahead right now in terms of in terms of where it is but there is a book called fifty nine seconds. Since I think a little Richard Wiseman that She dispels a lot of business myths stuff that I had done early, in my career that I wish, oh my God if I hadn't actually followed that Myth my life would've been quite different so that's another interesting book.

Umar Hameed: So no thanks so much for sitting down with me. Get a hold of you and your company.

Noah Berk: Yes so you can visit us at oboagency.com. You can email me directly at noah@oboagency.com. You know as a company you know what we're looking for is we are looking for companies that want to take that next step. We're looking for companies who we feel can use our process that we developed that has been proven time and time again for our clients to succeed in the marketplace, and we're looking for Generally B2B companies you know can be earlier stage companies, we work with a lot of mature businesses both technology, non technology based companies in terms of the true sense of technology companies; and for me I'm looking for wins you know. If I take you on as a client it’s because I know I can win. If I refer you to someone else it’s because I don't feel like we're the best fit for you for one reason or the other.

So feel free to check us out at oboagency, we're at events, we’re at sponsorships, networking all the time, and I’d love to meet you and if you just want to pick my brain I'm happy to share.

Umar Hameed: Brilliant, thanks so much for sitting down.

Noah Berk: Cool, thank you.